Allegory?

Allegory?

What are the allegorical implications of this novel? If it's not just about the search for a whale, what is it about?

What Makes this Novel Distinctly American?

What Makes this Novel Distinctly American?

Often, Moby Dick is hailed as the great American novel. What characteristics does it have that make it American at all? Is it the overriding theme of meritocracy?

The End

The End

There is a strong sense of tragedy in Moby Dick as Ahab and the crew fail to capture the elusive whale. But would it have been more tragic for Ahab and the men on the Pequod to have killed the great whale?

Fedallah

Fedallah

I would like to talk about Fedallah's role in the book and his relation to Ahab. He is described as demoniacal, but he also seems to merge with Ahab in a way that makes his character seem like an addition or a part of Ahab. I think it's interesting that Fedallah was able to predict their deaths, and I wonder how this plays into the idea of fate that runs through much of the story. Is Fedallah a representation of a creature from some sort of metaphysical realm?

Poor Pip!

Poor Pip!

I would like to talk about Pip. Why does he go crazy and what does it mean that he went crazy?

"Out from the centre of the sea, poor Pip turned his crisp, curling, black head to the sun, another lonely castaway, though the loftiest and the brightest. Now, in calm weather, to swim in the open ocean is as easy to the practised swimmer as to ride in a spring-carriage ashore. But the awful lonesomeness is intolerable. The intense concentration of self in the middle of such a heartless immensity, my God! who can tell it? ... Pip's ringed horizon began to expand around him miserably. By the merest chance the ship itself at last rescued him; but from that hour the little negro went about the deck an idiot; such, at least, they said he was. The sea had jeeringly kept his finite body up, but drowned the infinite of his soul." (321, chpt. 93)

Even this 'brightest castaway' was so affected by the awful lonesomeness that his soul was drowned. Either maddened or graced with divine Wisdom (I would lean towards maddened...), Pip, the cheery and bright ship hand, cannot recover from his solitary stint in the vast ocean. Does his blackness have anything to do with it? Not in an attempt to get into some discussion of how racist or not racist Ishmael and or Melville was, but rather in contrast to the white of the book (which could also be race fueled but that's not really where I'm trying to go here). How about a comparison between Pip's madness and Captain Ahab's?

Ahab Predestined?

Ahab Predestined?

My question is similar to Miriam's and Caitlin's. I wonder what Ahab is supposed to represent, although I think that ultimately it is many things. He seems main character of a Greek tragedy (his hamartia being his monomania), a disillusioned monomaniac set on vengeance, and also the man predestined to perdition. I wonder what role free will plays in this novel for Ahab, as he himself question's man free will. It seems to be that Ahab was destined for death (and hell?) by Moby Dick no matter what. His fate had already been woven.

What/Who does Starbuck represent?

What/Who does Starbuck represent?

"Thou art but too good a fellow, Starbuck,' he said lowly to the mate; then raising his voice to the crew: 'Furl the t'gallant-sails, and close-reef the top-sails, fore and aft; back the main-yard; up Burtons, and break out in the main-hold.'

It were perhaps vain to surmise exactly why it was, that as respecting Starbuck, Ahab thus acted. It may have been a flash of honesty in him; or mere prudential policy which, under the circumstance, imperiously forbade the slightest symptom of open disaffection, however transient, in the important chief officer of his ship. However it was, his orders were executed; and the Burtons were hoisted" (Melville 363).

Something that intrigued me throughout Moby Dick was the dynamic between Ahab and Starbuck. While Starbuck openly expresses his disapproval of Ahab's ill-fated, hubristic quest to kill Moby Dick, he generally remains obedient to Ahab throughout the work. In light of our thoughts on Ahab playing the role of an epic or tragic hero, such as Milton's Satan, I was wondering how Starbuck might fit into the framework of such an interpretation of Moby Dick, if at all.

I read Paradise Lost during sophomore year and don't remember it well enough to identify Starbuck with any of its particular characters. However, is it possible that Starbuck may in some sense represent Ahab's conscience? In the above passage, Starbuck has obeyed Ahab's orders, but is defiant as usual, and seems to provoke an admittedly brief lapse in Ahab's normally mechanical obsession with killing Moby Dick. In fact, Ahab considers his defiant words before returning to the deck, and wonders, "What's that he said--Ahab beware of Ahab--there's something there!" (362). In any case, I think that passages such as this one may be especially helpful in identifying Starbuck's role within our interpretation of the work.

What We've All Been Waiting For: Ahab v. Moby Dick

What We've All Been Waiting For: Ahab v. Moby Dick

Throughout Moby Dick, Herman Melville prepares his audience for the final encounter between Captain Ahab and Moby Dick. Melville has educated us about the nature of whales, the perils of whaling, the various symbolic meanings of the color white, ect.

We have also watched Captain Ahab's obsession with killing Moby Dick steadily spin out of control. In addition to this, Melville has presented us with several prophecies of doom foretelling Ahab's destruction. Starbuck warns an irrational Captain Ahab, "Let Ahab beware of Ahab; beware thyself, old man!" (PG 362). And the prophet, Gabriel, preaches to Ahab,"Think, think of the blasphemer - dead and down there ! - beware the blasphemer's end" PG 253). While Melville forces his audience to wait three hundred pages for the final stand off between Ahab and Moby Dick, the ultimate outcome of this encounter is heavily foreshadowed and therefore, not very surprising. And yet...

Ahab's battle with Moby Dick is epic in the truest sense. He battles the whale for three days (does anyone else think this a Christian Passion reference?). In the midst of his battle, Ahab comes to terms with the folly of his endeavor but in spite of this realization, he continues to hunt the whale, displaying perseverance in the face of certain defeat (like Hector in The Iliad) . Like the epic heros Achilles and Oedipus and Goethe's Faust, Captain Ahab's great flaw is his hubris. At the same time, the zealous/arrogant act of choosing to do battle with an unbeatable beast is admirable. I was upset when Ahab was defeated.

This got me thinking: Is the highest heroic act of man to defy the unknowable/unbeatable? Is this why we admire Faust and, to some degree, Satan in Milton's Paradise Lost? In challenging the whale to battle, is Ahab displaying his free will as a human being or is he simply an idiot? Is is admirable to fight a fight you cannot win or just really really dumb?

Ahab as Milton's Satan

Ahab as Milton's Satan

Someone already brought up Macbeth, and allusions to Faust or Don Giovanni might be revealing. But the points of connection between Ahab and Milton's Satan could be useful.

When asked if he wants to put lightning rods on the ship, Ahab barks:

"Avast!" cried Ahab; "let's have fair play here, though we be the weaker side."
--p. 382, ch. 119

On the next page, he rages in defying worship:

"Oh! thou clear spirit of clear fire, whom on these seas I as Persian once did worship, till in the sacramental act so burned by thee, that to this hour I bear the scar; I now know thee, thou clear spirit, and I now know that thy right worship is defiance. To neither love nor reverence wilt thou be kind; and e'en for hate thou canst but kill; and all are killed. No fearless fool now fronts thee. I own thy speechless, placeless power; but to the last gasp of my earthquake life will dispute its unconditional, unintegral mastery in me. In the midst of the personified impersonal, a personality stands here. Though but a point at best; whencesoe'er I came; wheresoe'er I go; yet while I earthly live, the queenly personality lives in me, and feels her royal rights. But war is pain, and hate is woe. Come in thy lowest form of love, and I will kneel and kiss thee; but at thy highest, come as mere supernal power; and though thou launchest navies of full-freighted worlds, there's that in here that still remains indifferent. Oh, thou clear spirit, of thy fire thou madest me, and like a true child of fire, I breathe it back to thee."

Later on, Ahab refuses the company of Pip, fearing that his madness may be cured (p. 399, ch. 129). And on the second day of the chase, Ahab says of himself:

Nor white whale, nor man, nor fiend, can so much as graze old Ahab in his own proper and inaccessible being. Can any lead touch yonder floor, any mast scrape yonder roof?"--p. 417

Ahab is rooted in himself, locked in defiant worship. He questions his free will, yet refuses to be swayed by Pip or family from his end. Is Ahab as immutable as Milton's Satan or Mozart's Don Giovanni?

P.S. This has nothing to do with anything, but one of my favorite lines in the book is Ahab's response to the captain of the Bachelor, who offers to have Ahab and the crew of the Pequod come aboard their party boat. Ahab just says: "Thou art too damned jolly."

Pre-determined Fate

Pre-determined Fate

In chapters 49-51 of the novel, we see hints and glimpses of a life that seems to be deliberatley planned out. The fragility of life is something that is noted, in particularly in chapter 49. It seems that these men, not truly knowing what they are going to be getting into, set aside all their worries, all their fears, and go after something that they seemingly have no connection to. Ahab, a man who is obsessed with Moby Dick, is willing not only to die for this animal, but risk his crew's life as well. Does his crew have any idea about the inner insanity that Ahab possesses?

"It may seem strange that of all men sailors should be tinkering at their last wills and testaments, but there are no people in the world more fond of that diversion. This was the forth time in my nautical life that I had done the same thing... I survived myself; my death and burial were locked up in my chest. I looked round me tranquilly and contentedly, like a quiet ghost with a clean conscience sitting inside the bars of a snug family vault."

Now that their lives have been signed away, do these men feel a sense of immortality? Now it seems as though they will be ok with the concept of death. Is this something that they truly believe, or something Ahab has tricked them into thinking...?

Kinds of Knowledge

Kinds of Knowledge

In this section of the reading there are quite a few jabs at philosophy and philosophers. There is also quite a lot of discussion of the scientific properties of the whale. Does Ishmael (and/or Melville) value scientific or empirical knowledge over philosophical inquiry?

Also, I'm very intrigued by Caitlin's post and think she's on to something. I think a follow-up question to hers or one that needs to be discussed along with hers is, what is Moby Dick? We are cautioned against making the whale represent one thing and one thing only; what are some possibilities for what it represents?

Also building off Caitlin's question a bit, it seems obvious to me that Ahab is unredeemable and going to hell. His destiny already seems before us as we read: his monomania will destroy him. But we also know something about Ishmael's destiny: we know that he lives to tell the tale. How does this influence our reading to know that Ishmael survives this expedition, and does anyone have any leads on what role Ishmael is going to play in this book and/or in Ahab's revenge/doom?

Philosophy and Allegory in Moby Dick

Philosophy and Allegory in Moby Dick

In Chapter 58, Ishmael compares the land and the sea and talks about the similarities and differences between the two. Then he takes the discussion of land and sea to a more transcendental level when he says:

Consider, all this; and then turn to this green, gentle, and most docile earth; consider them both, the sea and the land; and do you not find a strange analogy to something in your self? For as this appalling ocean surrounds the verdant land, so in the soul of man there lies one insular Tahiti, full of peace and joy, but encompassed by all the horrors of the half known life. God keep thee! Push not off from that isle, thou canst never return!

Ishmael then continues at the end of Chapter 60 to explain that the metaphorical whale-lines represent the constant perils of life, that we do not recognize until we become aware of our own danger:

All men live enveloped in whale-lines. All are born with halters round their necks; but it is only when caught in the swift, sudden turn of death, that mortals realize the silent, subtle, ever-present perils of life. And if you be a philosopher, though seated in the whale-boat, you would not at heart feel one whit more of terror, than though seated before your evening fire with a poker, and not a harpoon, by your side.

To what extent can this novel be read as an allegory? Is that the main point of the novel or can its literary aspect be just as meaningful as its allegorical aspect?

Something Wicked This Way Comes...

Something Wicked This Way Comes...

In Professor Tom Roche's re-interpretation of Hamlet, Roche argues that the spirit of Hamlet's father is more than a ghost; it is a demonic presence. The apparition feeds Hamlet's feverish paranoia and drives him into a mad and manic state. Roche argues that only an insidious and evil presence can do such a thing to a man. I promise this is relevant to Moby Dick...

On PG. 169 of our second reading, Melville begins to describe Ahab's obsession with the white whale as, "...the eternal, living principle or soul in him; in sleep, being for the time dissociated from the characterizing mind, which at other times employed it for its outer vehicle or agent, it spontaneously sought escape from the scorching contiguity of the frantic thing, of which, for the time, it was no longer integral."

Ahab's obsession is an entity of its own. It lives apart from Ahab. In my opinion, this obsession seems demonic, but not in the Christian sense of demonic (Legion, ect.). Rather, it is evil in the same sense that the ghost of Hamlet's father is evil; it tricks Ahab into creating an all consuming idol out of the white whale. Although I cannot put my finger on it, I get the ominous sense that Ahab, in indulging his obsession, is condemning himself to hell.

I think Melville agrees..maybe. Following the description of Ahab's obsession, Melville/Ishmael addresses Ahab's character directly. He offers up a pray/reflection on the captain, commenting "God help thee, old man, they thoughts have created a creature in thee; and he whose intense thinking thus makes him a Prometheus; a vulture feeds upon the heart for ever; that vulture the very creature he creates" (170).

Maybe this work is reminding me too much of Coolridge's Rime of the Ancient Mariner, but I get the sense that something very dark is going on here. Take into consideration the line, "Though in many of its aspects, this visible world seems formed in love, the invisible spheres were formed in fright" (164). Is anyone else getting this sense?

Too Verbose

Too Verbose

I have the same sentiment as Alyssa that Moby Dick is too wordy, and that certain chapters feel unnecessary to the story. Are these chapters necessary to make Moby Dick a great book? Or rather do they detract from its "greatness" ? This may be a question, however, that is left to be answered when we have read the entire novel.

Tragedy, the Novel, and the Supernatural

Tragedy, the Novel, and the Supernatural

I have two questions. First, in what ways is Moby Dick a tragedy? Traditionally, tragedy has been expressed through the medium of the play. In Moby Dick, however, Melville presents a tragedy in the form of the novel. Does he redefine tragedy or does Aristotle's definition of tragedy still apply to Melville's novel.

Second, does Melville that supernatural forces exist. Ahab certainly believes that Moby Dick is a mask for a supernatural agent. Is this Ahab's madness? Or does the human dread of the whiteness of the whale, as described in Chapter 42, portend an intrinsic human sensibility of the supernatural.

Ahab's Madness

Ahab's Madness

He lived in the world, as the last of the Grisly Bears lived in settled Missouri. And as when Spring and Summer had departed, that wild Logan of the woods, burying himself in the hollow of a tree, lived out the winter there, sucking his own paws; so, in his inclement, howling old age, Ahab's soul, shut up in the caved trunk of his body, there fed upon the sullen paws of its gloom (Chp. 34, pg. 131)!

Ahab scarcely appears on deck until his rousing speech about Moby Dick, but is frequently characterized as a mad and tormented soul. How does Ishmael already know so much about Ahab's character? Should we suppose that he has heard stories from the rest of the crew? In any case, the characterization of Ahab seems to be very blunt and sudden; Melville occasionally describes him but seems to do so rather haphazardly and without any concrete examples to explain his madness. Is Ahab's madness, as well as his character in general, supposed to be somewhat mysterious or do I just not fully understand it?

Religion

Religion

What does Melville think the role of religion is or should be? I am thinking specifically of the passages where he says that religion should be separate from practical matters, and when Ishmael is debating worshipping the idol and then decides that it is what God would want. What can we take from these sections and does it relate in any way to the egalitarian idea mentioned previously in the posts?

Queequeg and Ishmael, BFFs!

Queequeg and Ishmael, BFFs!

I am interested in the relationship between Ishmael and Queequeg. After spending one night together as complete strangers, they seemed to bond instantaneously and with little preparation. A simple sharing of a pipe was all it took to make them "bosom friends" (p 56). He also says that this would be strange in a civilized culture, "but in this simple savage those old rules would not apply" (p 56). This seems to be a statement about race relations that I imagine will show up again in the rest of the book, but does Ishmael really understand his friend, though he calls him a "simple savage"? I wonder how this relationship will play into the book later on.

Can we make Moby Dick more concise?

Can we make Moby Dick more concise?

As I was suffering through the immensity of these readings, I realized that the bulk of the pages is not spent on developing the story line in any way, but in Melville's conveyance of his erudition on the subject of whales, the color of white, etc... I'm wondering what you guys think is the intrinsic value of these sections. Do we really need to learn encyclopedic knowledge on all species of whales in the course of reading this text? Wouldn't just learning about the sperm whale, and perhaps the right whale, be sufficient? I have a hunch that if these long tracts were edited out, people of all ages might not groan so much about reading Moby Dick. But the fact is that these sections have remained over the decades, so what makes the book incomplete without them?

Moby Democracy

Moby Democracy

Melville seems to be fairly egalitarian when it comes to different societies and religions. For example, Queequeg's stories, first about the wheelbarrow and then about the fingerbowl (13, p.61ish) showcase his own cultural insensitivities with those of someone from a so-called "civilized" nation. Also, Melville apparently got into a mess of trouble for his words on religious toleration. How does this contrast with the hierarchy on the ship (Ahab is described as a dictator, I think, at least once)? Ahab's soliloquy at sunset has him recognizing the power of the White Whale while at the same time placing himself on an even playing field with it. What can we say about egalitarianism from this text?